I came across Marty Moss-Coane's Radio Times interview on WHYY and listened to it, if nothing else to try to catch a glimpse of what's going on on the other side of the fence. I will comment at the end, but to just lay out my notes and transcription, see below.
"The birth rate in the U.S. is at an all-time low at just 1.64 children per woman, below the replacement level. That number has been declining for the past decade and pandemic hasn’t helped. Any illusion that quarantines would led to a baby boom quickly fizzled. Across all races, ethnicities and economic classes, more women are delaying parenthood, reducing the number of children that they are having, or choosing to remain childless. So why are so many women putting children off or deciding to be child-free? And what impact will the low birth rate have on the country’s economic future? This hour, we’ll talk with Bowling Green University demographer KAREN BENJAMIN GUZZO, and Penn State University, Berks sociologist LAUREN JADE MARTIN. And Philadelphia Magazine writer GINA TOMAINE shares her story of wrestling with the parenting question."
The pandemic "was scary" for a lot of people, one of the interviewees mentioned. Economics was a "huge reason" for the declining birth rate since the Great Recession. Young people were left behind, she said, leaving them uncertain about their economic situations. School debt prevented young people from experiencing "financial freedom" and put many people on the fence about limiting children, or having them at all. Interviews with 70 women from the interview revealed that "a lot of them did not have stable jobs, were in precarious financial situations or had student debt. They were thinking towards the future...the need to find a really stable job."
The need to "be ready" to have kids in a secure and stable environment, which depended on family planning services, played large. One interviewee cited the lack of community and social supports, especially for those who have move to far away geographic locales away from family, that seem no longer available (her grandmother had eight children and raised them as a single mother when her husband left her). Constant instability, climate change, "things are not trending positively" and this is not a future "in which your children will have a better future than you."
On the topic of family leave, one interviewee mentions that "it plays some role" and "has a modest affect," but more so after the first child that it becomes an issue. "Parents in the United States are some of the most unhappy," she mentions, and cites the pressure on parents to be both good at their job and good at parenting. "I would love to see more generous family leave policies," she says. When the point of European countries with generous social safety nets came up, and why the birth rates are low there as well, she again cites "the Great Recession" as the reason.
"It comes down to mothers. No one asks dads this" (questions related to career and child rearing). "Who can afford to have kids?" Seems to be the overarching question, as well as "What do you (as women) want out of your life? Having children does not have to be the default position."
One third identified as not wanting to have children at all (citing climate change, and war, among other things). Some did not want to be around children at all, but had chosen to be "professional aunts" to get their "baby fix" without children of their own.
On contraception, it was "good news." "Since the ACA, increasing contraception access at no cost...if we can give teens the knowledge they need to avoid getting pregnant...this is great."
On the topic of men, "this is a long term problem...where are the men? They are 'part of the story'. We have not studied men enough...it is a glaring gap in the field."
On the topic of climate change, "that plays into the overall outlook of where our society is and where it's headed. It wouldn't be people's primary reason, but we also want to push against a government and corporations that don't prioritize future generations."
One interviewee admitted to being committed to never having children as a personal decision. "Motherhood has not appealed to me. I like being the professional aunt with no kids. I don't have the orientation towards being a mom."
Moss-Cohane cites that "the heterosexual marriage is a...dying breed." One interviewer responds that there are "multiple ways to be a family." Three-person families, gay families, friendships, non-binary, etc. "There are lot of ways to "be family." "We have to think about what kind of families we 'privilege.'"
Here are a few of the comments from listeners on social media:
-Honestly, do people need this spelled out? No maternity leave, high maternal death rate, no social support structures, no early childhood care or affordable preschool, no ability to survive on one income, high real estate prices and low wages, no parental support in the workplace, inflexible schedule, rising cost of food, healthcare, transportation, after school, sports and activities and I am sure I am forgetting something, ah, yes, college. Almost every parent I know is struggling with all of these.
-#1: You need to be rich to afford a kid, especially if you plan on providing them with a decent education. Im not just talking college either. You must live in a good neighborhood (translation = expensive) for a decent K-12 education. #2: The always on work culture in this country means you'll always be stressed out because you'll be juggling a job that expects all of your time. During soccer practice, you'll be taking conference calls in the car and placing your online grocery order for food that you barely have time to cook. At the same time, you'll be trying to figure out how to get in exercise to prevent all of the health problems from stress and sitting at a desk too much. #3: then, you'll have to deal with the fact that you can't do all of this and have to accept being paid less because you're a woman and a parent. #4: then, on top of all of this, you have to meet traditional expectations of beauty and not do anything that shows that you are thinking person because then you're deemed intimidating or demanding.
-Because some of us have different ideas of how we want our lives to be..some of us don't want to simply be mommies...the world is over populated as it is
-It's simple. People can barely afford to take care of themselves. The added costs of a child are simply not worth considering
-Idk but it’s a good thing
-It’s not a mystery. We don’t get paid enough to be able to afford kids.
-I think women are finally feeling confident enough to choose the path in life that they really want. Not every woman wants children, but our country puts such tremendous social pressure on women to do so. Forget that! The only people who should have children are the ones who really really want them.
-Because America talks about the importance of children and does NOTHING to help people who want children.
-It’s not rocket science. And I would add that we have an over crowded planet and dying oceans.
-Why would anyone want to bring an innocent child into this hell called earth?
-This is a good thing...as the population has soared exponentially- we don't need an infinite growing population. We already cruised past the 7 billion and are nearing 8 billion...😲😥 not good for the planet and population as a whole.
-From my young adults perspective it's the state of the world, climate change worries, lack of fair wages, equity ... They right now can't see adding to what they see as a failed or skewed environment
-Daycare is 1250- 1500 a month where I live. Mystery solved
-Because the world already has enough people lol
None of what I listened to for the past forty-five minutes and read in the comments was surprising. But it left me with such a heavy ache for the very future these women cited as "not wanting to bring a child into this world." Because the planned future they envision will simply not exist due to the glaring blind-spots and presuppositions about what a "better world" looks like (ie, a world with less people and less children). It may not be a full-on demographic winter we are facing, but it's one that will be increasingly hard to walk back from once it compounds. And those who are blind do not usually see, until it is too late.
Were they actually to have an opposing view, I would offer the following:
"This entire interview is based on the following seemingly irrefutable assumptions that hold the following:
-More people in the country and world is an undesirable prospect; voluntary population control is the laudable antidote.
-The underlying sentiment of women making the choice not to have children or limit them is based in an overarching sense of fear.
-Women working and being in the workforce is unarguably a social good.
-Economic factors seem to be a driving force in the decision to have children. If you cannot have the kind of life you envision, you should rule children out.
-Having children is dependent on governmental and social support structures (family leave, etc); if these are not in place to the degree that a woman feels will be enough, they will withhold their fertility in kind.
-Men do not seem to factor into this equation at all. Supply side economics is a huge blind spot (more women in the workforce affects wages and opportunities for men, for one).
-Access to contraception is an unarguable good that has helped women "have the life they want" which seems to include being permanently childless. It's the demographic loaded gun that you slide across the table to the person struggling with suicidal ideation.
I could go on, but I think the root of this tree is feminism which imbibes itself into every aspect of the conversation. It is the water one drinks without noticing the carcinogenic particulates within it that affects every aspect of our future.
The way I see this is like a puzzle. When the pieces all start to fit together to explain it, it makes sense and you see the landscape. But when you don't, you get this kind of blindness; it's either "we need more access to family planning," or "we need more government assistance," or "is this even a problem? (declining birth rates)"
I'm going to say, it is a problem. And just because you are too short-sighted to see it now doesn't mean you won't in twenty or thirty years, both personally and socially. But there is an antidote, even in our modern times:
Marriage between a man and a woman til death do you part is the bedrock of society. The purpose and end of marriage is for procreation and bonding. Children are a gift. People have been having children since the dawn of time. People have children in the poorest deserts of Africa and slums in Calcutta. Abortion and contraception doesn't 'solve' anything. A traditional model of childrearing in which the husband works and the woman stays home to raise children (rather than be full time in the workforce and dependent on daycare) opens the latch for at least population replacement rate. Family support is important, which is why intentional communities of faith (which take work to find, form, and cultivate) have the capacity to step in and at least make efforts to shore up what has been fractured since the Industrial Revolution. Even when married couples do not have their "idealized life" or economic security, they often adjust their perceived needs and expenses to accommodate. And finally, God is the author of life...and fear is not of God. If these important decisions are informed and motivated by fear (of how hard parenting is, or climate change, or whatever), you will reap the fruit of fear. But if they are made or accepted in love and trust, you may be surprised what God provides you with in return (joy, peace, contentment, an embrace of one's feminine nature, etc)--even when you suffer.
The feeling of sterility in the aforementioned interview comes through, both in topic and sentiment; it is not robust, joyful, generous, nurturing, but cold, economic, and self-focused. You will reap what you have sown; we all will. I just lament that by the time you realize it, it will be too late to change course.
See: Children of Men; Have All The Babies; The Stay At Home Dad Dilemma Revisited; There Is No Fear In Love; A Too-Planned Life
So sad, yet so relatable by the old me!
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